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	Shri H.N.Dastur Executive Secretary & Director-General of Bhavan



	Question. You could have had a great future as a journalist reaching great heights. What made you join Bhavan and continue being here all these years? Answer. As I told you earlier, I was sucked into the Bhavan Movement when I was a student of a Bhavan’s College. That’s that.

	Question. You have been writing under a pen name all these years. Is there any particular reason for you writing as Koopamandook or do you plan to write under your own name? Answer. I had stopped writing quite a few years back due to pressure of time. All my life, I have kept a low profile and shunned personal publicity. What is in a name? Really nothing. Name-fame are impediments to one’s spiritual journey. I called myself Koopamandook (that delightful story of Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa) because ultimately we are all frogs in the well. If KNOWLEDGE is an ocean, we can only draw a few buckets from it.

	Question. Your love for music is well known. Is it a hobby, passion or was it an alternative career choice at any time? Answer. Of course not. Music is my ultimate recreation and nothing touches your soul as tenderly as our Shastriya Sangeet. It is divine. It’s roots are in the Sama Veda. It uplifts you spiritually. But I am just a rasika who cannot go beyond bathroom singing. If one can derive tremendous joy from listening to classical music, he should realise that it is a gift to him from the Lord.

Shri H.N. Dastur's interview with Veena Adige

Question. You have taken over the Bhavan’s reins at a crucial moment. How do you visualise the future of Bhavan?
Answer. Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan is a cultural movement which strives for the reintegration of Indian Culture which is deeply and firmly rooted in our great spiritual heritage. This Ganga of spiritual regeneration continues to flow in our Punyabhoomi for thousands of years. India is not a mere country, like any other nation. It is, I repeat, a Punyabhoomi. From Vedic Rishis down to our saints and sages like Kabir, Nanak, Jnaneshwar, Basaveshwara, Tyagaraja, Bullan Shah, Nizamuddin Aulia, Ramakrishna Paramahamsa, Ramana Maharshi, Sai Baba, Kanchi Paramacharya, Gandhiji…….the divine flow continues.
Therefore, a Movement like Bhavan is bound to succeed even in this age of rank materialism and, in the words of Munshiji, ‘an amoral scientific and technological avalanche’, because it struggles to hold fast to the fundamental values for which the culture of the Bharata Varsha stands. Moments of frustration will come, self-serving persons may try to change Bhavan’s course, but these moments will always be fleeting moments. The Bhavan will march on.
By the way, I have not “taken over the Bhavan’s reins”. Bhavan continues its work because of the suddha sankalp and fantastic vision of Kulapati Munshiji, the sense of service and dedication with which many of the elders at the Central Bhavan and in the Kendras have selflessly worked over the decades, dedication of staff all over India and the goodwill and support of the people. I remain a humble coordinator.
Perhaps you have Ramakrishnanji in your mind. But believe me, a giant like him comes but once in a hundred years, whose name becomes synonymous with that of the Institution. Ramakrishnanji was a Tapasvi who sacrificed his all to serve India’s culture through the divine medium of Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan.
Bhavan’s future, God willing, will always remain radiant. Munshiji had laid down “the fundamental attitudes which everyone connected with Bhavan should develop for the Bhavan’s consolidation and sustained growth.” Munshiji describes one of these fundamental attitudes thus: “The development of a healthy mind that is neither petrified by custom nor capering at the call of every fancy, but which is rooted in the past, draws sustenance from the ennobling elements in the present and strives for a more radiant future.” As long as the crucial members of the Bhavan’s family follow this command of Bapaji, Bhavan will march on.

Question. You have said India is not a mere country but a Punyabhoomi. Can you elaborate, please?
Answer. I’ll answer this with an example. When Iran was invaded and the Parsi King was defeated, thousands of Parsi citizens, in order to preserve their Zarathustrian religion and protect their faith fled the country in small boats in all directions. That was fourteen hundred years ago. Those who reached other various countries did not survive for long. They were absorbed into the respective societies. Those who reached India not only survived but thrived and could contribute to the welfare of the country in so many fields.
Above all, they could keep intact their religious identity. Why? Because of this Punyabhoomi and its spiritual heritage. The Hindu King of Sanjan, Gujarat, Jadirana who gave shelter to Parsis put up certain conditions and believe me, all the conditions favoured Parsis and not the King. What a noble and far-sighted King he was!

Question. If you are asked to give one message based on your recent experiences, what will it be?
Answer. If you surrender yourself completely to God while keeping your integrity, character, humility and pure, selfless motives intact, the Lord himself will surely take over the reins of your chariot.

Question. And one lesson you have learnt?
Answer. Truth is no respecter of eminence or worldly might.

Photogallery

Shri Dastur receiving a memento from Kulapati Munshiji in 1964.

Shri Dastur with Badshah Khan at Vinobaji’s Paunar Ashram-1969

Shri Dastur greeting Dalai Lama when he visited Bhavan to receive its Honorary Membership (1990)

Shri Ramakrishnan, Prof. S.M.Parekh and Shri Dastur

L to R: Shri Nani Palkhivala, the then Vice President of Bhavan; Shri C.Subramaniam, the then President of Bhavan; Shri S.Ramakrishnan, Dr. Usha Mehta, the then chairperson of the Gandhi Smarak Nidhi and Shri Dastur (1996)

Dastur receiving Harold MacMillan at the Santa Cruz airport when he arrived in Mumbai to accept the Honorary Membership of Bhavan (1976).

Question. Please tell us your most memorable moments in Bhavan and the most happiest one?
Answer. There are too many such moments for me to pick and choose. The first memorable moment came even before I joined Bhavan. My two years as a student of Advanced Journalism in what was then known as the Bhavan’s College of Journalism, Advertising and Printing, made me fall in love with Bhavan and its ideology. As the Editor of the College’s three journals, I came in close contact with Munshiji and Ramakrishnanji. Imagine my joy when, after passing out from the College, I was about to join ‘The Statesman’, I received a hand-written postcard from Munshiji in Gujarati asking me to see him. As coincidence would have it, I also received an inland letter from Ramakrishnanji asking me to see him. Both had written independently of each other. They asked me to join Bhavan as its first P.R.O. and also Assistant Editor of Bhavan’s Journal. I was 23 then.
And how can I forget the day when the rear portion of the building where I was staying as a paying guest with a kind old lady collapsed and I became homeless? I had to vacate the building next morning. What would I do? I thought of telephoning my elder brother or Ramakrishnanji. I could not reach both. Young as I was, I dared to ring up Munshiji. And what was his spontaneous response? He invited me to stay with him at his residence on the fourth floor of the Central Bhavan building. And I stayed with him for quite some time. Even when I could find another paying guest accommodation, Munshiji commanded me to continue to stay with him.
Those were glorious times. I would take breakfast and dinner with Bapaji and Mummy and was treated like their son. To stay with a unique creative genius whose every moment was spent for the Indian cultural renaissance, was one of the greatest gifts of God .
There were hundreds of memorable moments while working with Ramakrishnanji. His humility, dedication, amazing capacity to put in sustained hard work, his creativity, ability to generate unity and harmony within the Bhavan family and friends was a matter of continuous joy.
The opening of a new Kendra or institution, resolution of a thorny problem, coming out of hopeless financial crunches, the amazing spirit of sacrifice shown by the so-called ordinary staff members, the selfless work continuously put in by Munshiji’s colleagues from Girdharilal Mehta, Jaisukhlal Hathi, Dharamsey Khatau, Pravinchandra Gandhi, Mahamahopadhyaya J.H. Dave saheb, Shrigopal Nevatia to C.Subramaniam, Surendralal Mehta, Amratlal Sonawala, Charandas Meghji and so on, interaction with giants like Vinobaji, Rajaji, Abdul Gaffar Khan saheb, Acharya Kripalani, Jaiprakash Narayan, Dr. Zakir Hussain, Morarji Desai, Smt. Subbulakshmi, Dalai Lama, and, oh, so many…… I had the opportunity to have close contacts with foreign statesmen like Lord Fenner Brockway, Harold Macmillan, James Callaghan and John Galbraith. The first three were Honorary members of the Bhavan. Those three functions when they became members of Bhavan were memorable.
A great friend of India, Lord Brockway used to tease Churchill by entering Parliament wearing a Gandhi Cap. At the Bhavan’s function Ramakrishnanji had kept Gandhi caps ready. Lord Brockway put it on with gusto and later put one on my head. What a happy moment! There were several beautiful incidents with these great ones.
And how can I forget the good and great persons in our society who, though they did not hold any position in Bhavan, were always eager to extend their helping hand to Bhavan? All these people had no personal agenda. Those were the glorious days.
Then there were some delicate moments like a powerful person literally hijacking an important Kendra of Bhavan. It was a big crisis. Ramakrishnanji consulted C. Subramaniamji and decided on a plan. My task was to implement it. After taking guidance of Ramakrishnanji, I, accompanied by two colleagues first went to Madras. For three hours, neglecting his lunch, C.S. studied the papers, asked questions and then briefed me thoroughly. What a clear, brilliant mind he had!
There was talk of muscle-power likely to be used. To counter it, C.S. telephoned to the C.M. of the state. The ground was so well prepared that the mission was accomplished within 24 hours.
For my first 40 years in Bhavan, I was immersed in a beautiful, creative, selfless world, blissfully unaware of the fact that there does exist another diametrically opposite kind of world. God made me pass through that experience too. Why, only He knows.
There were hundreds of joyful moments and events. I can narrate only one or two. For instance, Khan Abdul Gaffar Khan saheb came to India in 1969. Munshiji wanted to meet him but the doctors would not permit him to move out of his house. He asked me to go to Wardha as his emissary and meet Badshah Khan inviting him to visit Bhavan.
Tens of thousands of people had descended on Wardha. My task looked extremely difficult. But I had not realised the miracle that the name of Bhavan and Munshiji was capable of creating.
Carrying Munshiji’s letter to Vinobaji and a portrait of Badshah Khan, for which Ramakrishnanji had commissioned the great painter V.N. Okay, I cycled down from Nagpur to Vinobaji’s Ashram and was ushered into the presence of the three great ones-Badshah Khan, Vinobaji and Jaiprakashji.
What a moment! I was not nervous, but was certainly awestruck. Shriman Narayanji – I think he was then the Governor of Gujarat – introduced me. Vinobaji put me at ease with his delightful humour and spoke appreciatively of Munshiji and Bhavan to Badshah Khan who wrote a message in Persian on his portrait and agreed to call on Munshiji in Mumbai. He did come to Bhavan and met Munshiji.
What a moment!
Vinobaji too wrote down a message and gave it to me to be published in the Bhavan’s Journal’s special issue on Badshah Khan.
Jaiprakashji then took me to his hut, prepared a glass of herbal tea for me and talked with me for half an hour. He then wrote down a beautiful message and asked me whether it was okay. What humility and what spiritual glow these three great ones had! Imagine the joy and the inspiring ecstasy of a 29-year-old young man. Ah!. Those were the times.
When I was staying with Munshiji, Rajaji came as his guest. To be under one roof with Rajaji for a few days was a fantastic experience. Swami Ranganathanandaji was the patron-saint of Bhavan. How can I forget those hours and hours that I spent with him spread over three decades? That joy is indescribable.
But I should stop, otherwise your interview will never end.

Question. What, in your perception, is the biggest challenge Bhavan faces?
Answer. How times have changed! Sheer materialism, I would say even hedonism, is on the march. Globalisation has given fresh strength to it. This should not have happened in our country. But it has. Bhavan’s existence, its ideals and its work have, in this context, become much more relevant and vital than they were in 1938, when Bhavan was founded. That shows the fantastic insight and vision of Munshiji and his colleagues among whom Mahamahopadhyaya J.H. Dave saheb is still with us, still guiding us.
One challenge is to identify more and more good, dedicated persons to work for Bhavan. Unfortunately, there are also persons who see Bhavan as a medium to gain personal power, influence, fame. To remain vigilant on this front is another challenge.
First time in its history, Bhavan recently passed through some unpleasant experiences. But its inherent strength and blessings of the Lord made it withstand it. Such things do happen in the life of an individual or an institution. They are the real test of their spiritual strength.
But believe me, there is a lot of goodness in our society. There are lot of good people wanting to contribute towards the upliftment of our country. Bhavan’s one major task is to identify them, persuade them to work for Bhavan and to provide them with an opportunity, a platform, to do so. If we continue to succeed in spreading the moral and ethical values as handed down to us by our Rishis and sages, if we can effectively take to our countrymen, the message of our priceless spiritual heritage, interweaving it with the demands and pressures of modern times, we will have fulfilled the dream of Munshiji.
Bhavan has a student-strength of two lakhs. While giving them the best of education in various modern fields, what should we do to continuously strengthen and update our efforts to inculcate moral and ethical values in the young ones, is a big challenge.
The real challenge is how to remain relevant to the changing times while striving to fulfill Bhavan’s Mission as laid down by Munshiji. Times keep on changing and Bhavan has to adjust to remain relevant. Bhavan has so far succeeded in this. That is what our Prime Minister, Dr. Manmohan Singh, said when he visited the Central Bhavan, Mumbai, on October 6, this year: “I compliment the Bhavan on its unceasing and untiring efforts to remain relevant to the needs of our society.” The challenge is to continue to succeed in these efforts. In this, the Bhavan’s true strength, in the words of Ramakrishnanji, remains in “the blessings of the Godly and the goodwill of the good.”
Bhavan is blessed because it has tremendous goodwill and support. I end my answer to your question with the prayer which our Prime Minister said at the very end of his inspiring address. He concluded: “May your path continue to be blessed”.

Shri C.Subramaniam, the President of Bhavan presenting a memento to Shri Dastur. Present on the occassion are Swami Ranganathananda, Shri Nani Palkhivala,Shri Krishnamurthy, Ex.Director of The Times of India (Behind Shri Palkhivala), Shri Ishaq Jamkhanawala, President of Anjuman-i-Islam (partly seen in the background beside C.S.) and Shri Pravinchandra V. Gandhi (1992)